A thank you and a bit more besides...

[Korky]

Mornin' Everyone

Just thought I'd say a great big THANK YOU to those who responded to my email yesterday. In the Shout Box, Brian referred to it as a 'wake-up call' and after giving it a little thought, I think he was spot on with that description. In order to function properly, we need members to post photographs, leave comment, have fun and - most important, this one - drop in on a regular basis. I sincerely hope the email has made you all more aware of that.

All the responses we got have been shared between Phil, Robin and myself and they've all been read and are being discussed. I'm happy to report that there were very few complaints, only three in fact, so I'll share 'em here.

Leon mentioned that it's very disappointing to post an image and then have little or no response. I agree fully, but it's important to remember that there's little point in dropping in to show us a photo you're proud of and then not bothering to leave comment for others. This one is for members to address rather than Admin, but "comment and thou shalt be commented upon" is what it says in some crusty, owd book on forum etiquette.

KCbrecks said that we come across as a 'clique of friends'. I've felt this way for a long time, but I'm not sure how we address it. When we get new members, we always rally round to greet them and comment on their posts, then they just seem to drift off. Why? Is the appearance of being a little self congratulating group who must not be infiltrated a true one? If so, what can we do?

JemRaid pointed out that we aren't adventurous enough (that's the condensed version), but I think that's because we're mainly a bunch of amateurs who like to photograph cats and dogs and landscapes and trees and water and people (don't forget people). Give us a fair crack, Jem, and I think you might get to like us. Jump in, put your doubts at one side, post and comment for a while and if you're still not happy I'll send you a bag of Uncle Joe's Mintballs as a thank you and we'll call it a day!

Please feel free to comment however you wish in this thread.

Korky

 

 

[ChrisD]

Tin hat on..

 'Clique of friends' was it for me. Once the established membership looses track of what 'forum' means its easy to become a club, and that presents hurdles, real or perceived, to new members. A forum I was involved with zero'd membership post counts each year to encourage input from new members.

I'll get my coat.

[stevedevil]

A forum should be a place where good and bad feedback should be free to express, the main reason(s) that I ( Others ) may have stopped is that some ( Including admin and long posters ) get a little tetchy when a fair question is asked regarding posts and photo’s, and a forum should have good and fair responses to threads to attract others who may float in and have a read, as it helps us all learn more, and not be afraid to air a valid opinion, 

Anyway that said, I Know how tough it is to moderate a forum, so take my hat off to those involved in attempting to keep it running..

Will post a few images and see how it goes

[Korky]

ChrisD - I really don't know what we do to combat this perceived 'clique', I really don't. Just lately there's been just a handful of members who've kept the place ticking over and I can understand how that may be seen as a clique. Perhaps if more people start posting, we'll get to the stage where we're seen differently.

SteveDevil - If anyone at TIPF has treated you badly you should've taken them to task over it - I know I would. You are always perfectly free to constructively criticise images that are posted on TIPF, no matter who the poster is, just keep it friendly and all will be well. Some members (me included) are always happy to get honest feedback. What TIPF doesn't like is bad language and aggressive behaviour, but I think that's the case with most forums.

[David61]

I am glad I got the email, some forums are really good as you make online friends who have the same love as me and it is good to give and take CC.  When I left here I joined far too many forums some good but some crazy, I even got kicked off one as it was just crazy and I said so in my strange way.  I won`t get kicked off here as I will be good/polite which is what we all want.  IMO I do think it will pick up up winter months it can be a bit slow, but in a month or too it will be great here again.

[FUJI]

THANK YOU EVERYONE from me too.....TIPF is firing on all cylinders again, (since somebody pulled the Korky out ? ) ...Sorry I just couldn’t resist that ...

Seriously though, it is really good that we have all rediscovered our online selves.....I’m up for ANY comments positive or negative as long as the latter are constructive; oh, and please....more banter and fun, even that from the US of A ...... it is what has been lacking recently.

FUJI

Edited January 25, 2018 by FUJI

[Korky]

I'm going to BUMP this for the next day or so - each time it drops off the homepage.

Sorry if you're getting fed up with it, but I want as many as possible to read it and then speak up if they have the inclination.

Korky

 

[sjr]

My 2 pence for what it’s worth. I don’t feel there is a clique just a good online community of like minded folk who I have always thought made newbies feel more than welcome it’s by far the best forum I have been a member of.

That said I,m guilty of not having a lot to say comment wise but with the 365 challenge over I was determined to post and comment a little more this year in the big wide world of the forum (I just needed to get through to the end of this month) and I will still do that. The reciving of comments good or bad I’m ok with it’s the giving of what could be seen as negative comments I struggle with not sure why?

Simon.

[Jon]

I've never felt anything but welcome on here, something that can't be said for a fair few online enterprises. I never felt I had a lot to say, as there is always someone with more experience, and anything I might say has generally been said.

I just sort of drifted away when I stopped going out with the big camera. Then 2 days after I made a conscious decision to get out and take some photos again I got the email, so it's probably best I start wandering through again!

I've bought a new camera battery (mine has gone missing since the camera was put away) and it's charging, so I may grace you all with some poorly shot photos soon :-)

[Denis]

12 hours ago, Korky said:

there's little point in dropping in to show us a photo you're proud of and then not bothering to leave comment for others

Firstly, no one emailed me, I found this by accident.

 I removed myself from the forum until I retire, then and only then will I have the time to get involved with photography again. As regards the quoted sentence above, I personally find that for me it is impossible to offer critique on other peoples photos when I can only produce a half decent image myself by accident! I also found that I was trying to take photos to post on the forum and not for myself.

 The reason I joined in the first place was to try and learn from others. I wanted to improve my own photos. To an extent being on the York and Stratford visits enabled me to see how you seasoned photographers viewed objects, shots and content, And I did learn a bit, plus I for one enjoyed your company. But I do notice that generally no one really explains how you achieve the many excellent photos you seasoned chaps and chapesses post. It sometimes seems a bit like a guarded secret, and almost feels that some of you are a little loathing to discuss such subjects! Then I got to thinking that it may be a competitive thing. Having seen the level of competitiveness on other photographic forums I can see that some people may not discuss such matters as not to give too much away..crazy eh?

 Normal comments like 'great image', 'nice photo' ect are sometimes all that I felt I could offer, either that or hit the like button. But being away so much during the week without computer or internet access I missed so many posts. With the amount of challenges/themes/one a day/week whatever so much material passes through that I found it impossible to keep up. When I have asked a question regarding Lightroom and printers, that question quickly disappeared into the murk without an answer (it still remains unanswered I think!) but not to worry as I figured it out meself.

This is a friendly place, and most of you are a good bunch. I can say that as I have met a few of you in the past, but maybe a 'how to do this' section might benefit those who are not well versed in the terminology or technique of everyday photography. Unless you collectively think those things can be sourced elsewhere on the web.

Anyway, back to the grind...just 14 months left until retirement!

Cheery-bye

,

 

[Ryewolf]

Nice to see you back on the forums Denis, and you do have a point in that very rarely do people explain how they achieved the results they do - though there is a Before and After Thread somewhere on the forum where people can explain their workflow from out of camera image to finished image.

I don't think it's a case of keeping it secret or being competitive, I think it's just a case of there's just so many ways to manipulate an image using various software programs/plugins available, that it's difficult to produce a 'how to' for every single combination..

In my case I use Photomatix Pro 5 and 6 (on two different computers) and Paint Shop Pro 7 (which is about 18+ years old now) and a couple of plugins/filters (Redfield/Virtual Photographer). I use Photomatix to process my image and Paint Shop to do stuff like cloning, resizing, retouching such as sharpening, noise reduction, rotating, adding borders to my images. So my how to's would be useless unless you had the same software.

[fuzzyedges]

53 minutes ago, Denis said:

But I do notice that generally no one really explains how you achieve the many excellent photos you seasoned chaps and chapesses post.

Dennis I would love to show how I achieve my images BUT its not a secret its a whole load of steps mostly wrong ones that do your head in at the end you have no idea what exactly you did Nearly all the steps in bits are on you tube how to cut out how to use curves how to blend how to sharpen how to even crop 

Another problem is what post process software do you use I use a combination of DNG, Bridge and CS5 who else uses this I dont use lightroom so anything I said would probably only apply to me 

Maybe I should post who to follow on you tube and why.That might be helpful I will look into that given time  

[Guest]

I suppose the forum comes across as a clique because some people have been here a long time and find a lot of time to post on here. I on the other hand have been here a long time and have no time to post most of the time due to work, diy, other business interests, planning a US trip etc etc etc. 

I have work on online sites and forums for over 20 years and sites that have a small dedicated group of users always look like a clique to the newbie and I don't think there is anyway to stop that. However this site has the lowest argument rate of any site I have ever belonged to and users do try their best to make newbies feel welcome.

As has been said more tips about how you got an image might be good, There was a tutorial section at one point where people could do a this is how I did it post and others could chip in with other ways of doing it, I must check if that is still here.

Mostly I think that winter is the quiet time for photography as the days are short and its too cold to go out for long or just too wet.

 

i'll see if I can pop in a bit more

[Rick448]

I didn't respond to the email directly, and have only just had a chance to come here to comment. I've been away most of the week, and been very busy since I got back, 

I would agree that there does appear to be a smallish group of regular posters who may seem to be a clique, I'm not sure if this is actually the case, but I think due to the overall lack of posts it may seem that posts are not commented on as much as on some other forums. However in all honesty other busier forums you can often post images, or comments without a response. 

One of the reasons I don't post many images on here is because I use Flickr to host my images, but then have to faff about removing links, and posting small images compared to other forums. I realise this is probably to do with the cost of hosting the forum, but nonetheless it does put me off posing as many as I would if I could just link straight from Flickr. 

I will try to post more, and also comment more on other posts, as I wouldn't want the forum to die a death. Watch this space!

[Kobione]

I have loved being a part of this forum since the day I joined. I have said many times in replies that I am not heavily into the tech side of things, and that I simply enjoy what I do - which is basically 'point and click', so that's why you don't get technical comments from me, and you will get 'nice picture' etc. I do tend to hit the like button a bit, usually when I don't have time available to do proper catch ups on everything, but at least that lets the poster know that it has been viewed, and, rest assured, I would not hit the like button if I didn't like it.

I don't feel there is actually a clique here, just the group of regular posters who have kept things going, although there are some 'bonds' between some - like those who got through the OAD challenge together - you all should be proud of your efforts!

I hope tipf continues to be an active and enjoyable place, lets all move forward in a positive mood and keep things going.

[Korky]

One thing I've come to realise is that we'll never please all of the people all of the time - but I think in the main we're getting things right.

Thanks for the comments, everyone, very much appreciated.

Korky

[fuzzyedges]

Just a thought on cliques 

Say if the poster's handle is crotchety sid and some of the replies refer to him by his real name Steve,  giving an intimate impression of closeness,  to those outside that dont know him as Steve and would be reluctant to address him as such 

I suggest from now on we only use the names above the avatars to make things equal 

Its a small point but one that I think is quite important  

[Stravinsky]

Ive relatively recently given up running a car club forum.  The problem we discovered was that Facebook has had a huge effect on forums.  Instant responses I suppose.  Everyone and their dog wanted to start up a competing FB page, but they soon realised that the important and critical data that we had on our forum wasnt quite so safe on FB in the long term.  FB destroys image quality as far as photography is concerned, so although you can happily post up your images there, they have lost quality and on the big groups it disappears into oblivion in the mass of other photographs on there.

It's important to keep forums going ...... and as for the suggested clique? Well ... if you dont post in here then it reduces the amount of people talking to each other .... so if you post more and regularly then it wont seem so cliquey 

 

[Black Pearl]

On 25/01/2018 at 23:11, Denis said:

But I do notice that generally no one really explains how you achieve the many excellent photos you seasoned chaps and chapesses post. It sometimes seems a bit like a guarded secret, and almost feels that some of you are a little loathing to discuss such subjects! Then I got to thinking that it may be a competitive thing. Having seen the level of competitiveness on other photographic forums I can see that some people may not discuss such matters as not to give too much away..crazy eh?

You make a good point Denis and while I don't think anyone is competitive or guarded towards their methods I do think as a whole we could do more to post some background to the shots we share. I'm guilty of not doing this and I tend to put a fair bit of work into many of them......so......I will try from now to give an idea of what went into the images I post.

[Korky]

I've bumped this a final time JIC anyone wants to comment on Fuzzy's post above. His point is a valid one, but will it work?

Korky

[Rick448]

In my opinion, I don't think it matters if people call each other by their real names, however it may matter to some new members who could feel left out. Maybe if we had the option to add our real names to the profile which is shown, that would alleviate the problem. I have seen this on other forums. 

I would agree with the post from Denis and response from BP. There is very little in the way of advice on how to achieve the shots, or indeed critique in general, other than to say "nice shot" etc. Possibly that is what people on here appreciate, but as a newbie to photography, I wanted to receive constructive criticism and help to improve. Maybe we need to add some additional forums to allow this, and keep existing forums as they are. Something similar to the Talk Photography forum, but without the over the top criticism and arguments in some cases! 

I definitely think there is room on here to provide help for members, and also keep new members interested. I am trying to make an effort to add more input to this site now, as I do enjoy the fact it is not full of so called experts who rip into peoples pictures, and I am also going to try to be more detailed in my feedback of photo's rather than just to say, nice shot. 

[Korky]

25 minutes ago, Rick448 said:

There is very little in the way of advice on how to achieve the shots, or indeed critique in general, other than to say "nice shot" etc. Possibly that is what people on here appreciate, but as a newbie to photography, I wanted to receive constructive criticism and help to improve.

Rick - There is a section with the title 'Image Critique' and if you post in there, you'll get much better feedback than in the normal sections. Overall, we tend to have a 'play nice' attitude on TIPF and folk are a bit reluctant to be over critical. Why not post an image in the critique section and see what happens? 

I like your idea re real names - perhaps Phil will pick up on that one at some stage.

Korky

[Clicker]

One of the reasons I started a before and after  thread  was because people were asking how I did something ... I am happy to share with anyone the process I use to get a certain result but it can be quite a long process so linking that to the photo on a separate before and after forum seemed to be the answer.  The problem may well be that it’s difficult to know just how much detail one has to go into to do a tutorial that suits the variety of skills and knowledge  that are out there ...  it’s a conundrum....?

[fuzzyedges]

31 minutes ago, Rick448 said:

n my opinion, I don't think it matters if people call each other by their real names, however it may matter to some new members who could feel left out. Maybe if we had the option to add our real names to the profile which is shown, that would alleviate the problem. I have seen this on other forums

This is what I was trying to say 

It sets up two camps those who have been here a while (although I find when someone is talking about sam and the post is from crusty sid it does get confusing) and those new uns This looks as if there is a inner circle 

It is up to the individual if he shows his real name or the name above his avatar or both but I will, as i have always, only refer to the visible name so that people know who I am talking about / to 

[Rick448]

36 minutes ago, Korky said:

Rick - There is a section with the title 'Image Critique' and if you post in there, you'll get much better feedback than in the normal sections. Overall, we tend to have a 'play nice' attitude on TIPF and folk are a bit reluctant to be over critical. Why not post an image in the critique section and see what happens? 

I like your idea re real names - perhaps Phil will pick up on that one at some stage.

Korky

Hi Korky,

I had missed that, I've just had a quick look, its not very busy in there is it. I do find the forum home page (not the site) a little busy though, and distracting. I guess that is mainly down to the forum software, and is not a criticism against anyone who works on it. I am just looking at what is likely to put new members off from joining in the first place, as well as keeping them on board. For me I also don't like the shout box on the front page, I never use it and i think this could add to the perception of a clique for new users. For me, the cleaner the front page looks the better, maybe have less actual forums until there is a need, as we aren't that busy it may improve things... maybe not. Just thinking out loud. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Rick448