Spitfire and Hurricane

[Monkey]

can i ask you good people which do you think would look best on large print the original or the sky replacement from another Mamtor sunrise 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Monkey

[Hatter]

It's very subjective.
To answer the question as asked - "which would look best?" - I think it's clearly the version with the replacement sky.  You've done an excellent job with the edit.

From the point of view of authenticity, I'm inclined to prefer the original sky though.

[JamesT]

The problem with the replacement sky is that the lighting direction becomes wrong on the planes. While it's not extreme, it is apparent on careful examination.

This (I think) is probably the hardest thing to get right in composite images.

[Monkey]

11 hours ago, Hatter said:

It's very subjective.
To answer the question as asked - "which would look best?" - I think it's clearly the version with the replacement sky.  You've done an excellent job with the edit.

From the point of view of authenticity, I'm inclined to prefer the original sky though.

Thank you, That is exactly my view as well Hence why i asked. I think i will mull over it for a time and see 

[colinb]

Oh dear ... I'm sorry to sound negative Mr Monkey but I really don't like the fake sky.

Nothing against using a replacement sky but this is so over the top it has completely dominated the picture almost making the two aircraft redundant, as a viewer I wonder is it about the aircraft or the sky?

Personally I see nothing wrong using a replacement sky especially on the days that give you a dull grey sky or even just a blue cloudless backdrop, but I think moderation is the key.

Looking at the original I see a sky that works and maybe just needs pulling out of the original raw file something I would do using layer masking.

It is of course your photo and your choice and as long as your happy with it ?

 

[Monkey]

13 minutes ago, colinb said:

Oh dear ... I'm sorry to sound negative Mr Monkey but I really don't like the fake sky.

Nothing against using a replacement sky but this is so over the top it has completely dominated the picture almost making the two aircraft redundant, as a viewer I wonder is it about the aircraft or the sky?

Personally I see nothing wrong using a replacement sky especially on the days that give you a dull grey sky or even just a blue cloudless backdrop, but I think moderation is the key.

Looking at the original I see a sky that works and maybe just needs pulling out of the original raw file something I would do using layer masking.

It is of course your photo and your choice and as long as your happy with it ?

 

I fully agree Colin its not something i do a lot of i do like to present images as the camera saw them, Photographers usually see through composites and look deeper into images where general social media folk would go for the composite because of the sky. Ive got in the region of 10 terrabite HDD full of images spanniong way back and have in all this time only ever made a dozen or so composites. 

[markknittle61]

Of the two I prefer the sky replacement even with it's minor flaws, I think we as photographers will always see things nobody else will notice. On the original version, have you tried masking the planes and adding contrast to the sky?  We have some of the worst skies for photography here so some times Sky replacement is the only decent option, Most of the time if you play around with it you can get a satisfactory result.

 

[Monkey]

16 hours ago, markknittle61 said:

Of the two I prefer the sky replacement even with it's minor flaws, I think we as photographers will always see things nobody else will notice. On the original version, have you tried masking the planes and adding contrast to the sky?  We have some of the worst skies for photography here so some times Sky replacement is the only decent option, Most of the time if you play around with it you can get a satisfactory result.

 

Thank you, no ive not tried masking them its took me donkey’s years to find out how to replace the sky lol i dont use photoshop much only for sizing images for internet i do all my work in adobe camera raw, i find photoshop to complex for me 

[Fogey]

Sorry Mark, this doesn't work for me.  

The prop blur was against a grey sky and you can see that against the red sunset sky - stands out like a sore thumb.  You would have been better to work on dramatising the original sky, in my view.

[CMunzel]

I prefer the top one with original sky. It could improved by boosting the contrast of the sky a bit if you are able to. 

[Monkey]

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions ive decided niether will go to print yet as much as i leke the composite for that dramatioc feel, it doesnt look real and ive tried several times with the original RAW file to improve the sky but cannot get any better with my limited skills in photoshopw. So im going to wait a while and try to get a better cloudy background with more cloud detail and see where i can go from there/

Thanks again for all the comments and advice

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Monkey

[Fogey]

Mark, what you are asking for is much easier than you think.

This is a link to the intermediate 2022 ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), file and how to install it as an attachment to Photoshop.  https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-in-installer.html

Open up your images in Adobe Bridge, menu click, (right click), the image and select 'open In ACR'.

Then follow this 5 minute tutorial.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXusnsMTXY&t=45s&ab_channel=BarryBeckhamVideos

There are a plethora of videos on photoshop via this link.  https://beckhamdigital.photo/

I have had a play with your image, following the instructions in the tutorial, just to show you what I mean.

Dramatising the sky with the raw file, using this method, will produce a far better result than I can do with the reduced image you have posted.

 

[Monkey]

51 minutes ago, Fogey said:

Mark, what you are asking for is much easier than you think.

This is a link to the intermediate 2022 ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), file and how to install it as an attachment to Photoshop.  https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-in-installer.html

Open up your images in Adobe Bridge, menu click, (right click), the image and select 'open In ACR'.

Then follow this 5 minute tutorial.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXusnsMTXY&t=45s&ab_channel=BarryBeckhamVideos

There are a plethora of videos on photoshop via this link.  https://beckhamdigital.photo/

I have had a play with your image, following the instructions in the tutorial, just to show you what I mean.

Dramatising the sky with the raw file, using this method, will produce a far better result than I can do with the reduced image you have posted.

 

Thank you I have ACR adobe camera raw thats where id do all my work except resizing but will look at video to see if i can pull more. I dont need to open bridge to get to acr i just right click image, click open with photoshop and ACR opens up first with photoshop behind it, once ive done what i need to i select open at bottom right corner of ACR and it goes strait into photoshop where i mainly resize for internet and save as jpeg.

[Monkey]

Well ive tried following that utube video but it lost me, i really struggle following things on utube about photoshop as they all have there screens set to there own personel layout and its always different to mine, so i dont have a lot of patience with them hence my lack of knowhow with photoshop, i cant even get thru 1st step of lightroom as it takes over my pc and screws up all my files folders, ive had a simple proccess from downloading files labelling proccessing and storing them since i went digital and find it hard to adapt to change hence i dont bother with them now and just do my simple easy way.

 

Thanks for all the advice though 

[markknittle61]

On 13/06/2023 at 01:19, Fogey said:

Mark, what you are asking for is much easier than you think.

This is a link to the intermediate 2022 ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), file and how to install it as an attachment to Photoshop.  https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-in-installer.html

Open up your images in Adobe Bridge, menu click, (right click), the image and select 'open In ACR'.

Then follow this 5 minute tutorial.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXusnsMTXY&t=45s&ab_channel=BarryBeckhamVideos

There are a plethora of videos on photoshop via this link.  https://beckhamdigital.photo/

I have had a play with your image, following the instructions in the tutorial, just to show you what I mean.

Dramatising the sky with the raw file, using this method, will produce a far better result than I can do with the reduced image you have posted.

 

 

On 13/06/2023 at 01:19, Fogey said:

Mark, what you are asking for is much easier than you think.

This is a link to the intermediate 2022 ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), file and how to install it as an attachment to Photoshop.  https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-in-installer.html

Open up your images in Adobe Bridge, menu click, (right click), the image and select 'open In ACR'.

Then follow this 5 minute tutorial.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXusnsMTXY&t=45s&ab_channel=BarryBeckhamVideos

There are a plethora of videos on photoshop via this link.  https://beckhamdigital.photo/

I have had a play with your image, following the instructions in the tutorial, just to show you what I mean.

Dramatising the sky with the raw file, using this method, will produce a far better result than I can do with the reduced image you have posted.

 

Thanks Jeff,  You can also go back to Camera RAW from Photoshop for fine tuning even on a JPEG. in Photoshop filters there is a link.  I never could get the old way to work but the link works nicely.

[Fogey]

I have been following Barry Beckham's tutorials for a number of years now and regard him as the go to man whenever I have a problem.