Is there a problem, and if so what might it be?

[FUJI]

Thank you for that Fuji, it reinforces the point I've been trying to make since I started this 'thread'.

 

That's exactly what this forum is

 

As such it should be seen as very attractive, but it just isn't attracting 'young, and not so young, new blood.

 

Your response is very well thought out, and I can relate to all of what you say

 

Dave

Ah! So!

I appreciate your reply....but......

Dave, I'm not really sure exactly what you are trying to get at........I for one, in the past, have recruited at least three young members, one of them was a member all the way through Uni......but on graduation he left to do what graduates do.....we had young James on here for about three years, not only a very keen, learning to be a pro photographer but a Mountain Bike enthusiast who used to post the most incredible action shots.......he left after graduation to set up his own studio as far as I know.

Get thee to a place where younger photographers gather and recruit a few...........every time I meet, then chat to a photographer, young or old, I give them my card and invite them to join us.......other than wearing a ...Sandwich Board.....I don't know what else I can do.

FUJI

[Guest]

New members seem to come in waves, we get a few turn up then none for a month or two then a few turn up. Most new members seem to come via recommendation rather than by finding us on the web, we dont advertise and we did suffer a total failure and change of URL a year ago when the old URL expired and the owner couldnt be contacted to get it renewed so we had to rebuild from scratch. Thats probably not helping with the new members finding us at the moment as we aren't as high on google as we used to be.  

[Beth]

Well.......discussions, discussions............lol.

 

If my opinion is worth anything, I'm happy with this forum as it is.......I feel that members join for all sorts of reasons...

Some join just to get some information on a technique etc and maybe that's all they wanted....then they just dribble in and out and then they're gone.

 

I also don't see any point in encouraging younger members as opposed to older members, I just think that this forum is fine as it is.  I personally didn't enjoy or feel very 'comfortable' when I joined a much busier and larger forum.  If I'm honest, it made me feel as if my images weren't good enough to post, as there were so many 'high end' and professional photographers on there, that in some way, made me feel inferior, together with a few others too.

 

I love this place and glad I found it again, as I really thought it had gone for good. :-)

 

I like 'closeness' in communities such as this forum and any new member that brings 'a breath of fresh air' to it, is more than welcome and often an inspiration.  As an example and I hope no one minds me saying this, but Creative Snaps has been one of those members.  

 

We ALL have something to offer, inexperience or experience.  I feel we are just exactly where we are, and that is 'just right'.

 

I understand in part what Dave is saying though and it's good to raise these points at times, but this is just my opinion and the above is just how I feel too.

 

talk to anyone me....!

Me too Annie, lol.

[DaveS]

"what am I trying to get at"

 

Ok, I'll try to explain this as best I can.

 

I see other photography forums attracting new members, and I'm not talking about the 'trolls', barrack room lawyers, and the 'Twitter Brigade', but ordinary and genuinely interested photographers, both young and old.

 

Some of these forums are as well managed and friendly as this one, e.g. http://www.eos-magazine-forum.com/forum.php, and they attract new members, and without growing to an uncomfortable number of active members.

 

The 'bear pit' photography forums also attract new members, the decent ones only staying long enough to find out the unsavoury side of the forum.

 

Then there is TIPF, which as soon as I saw what it was all about, read some of the posts, and formed an opinion of it members, I thought "this is a nice place to be", and joined.

 

If you do a web search for UK based photography forums, TIPF is quickly found, so its not a case of it being obscure.

 

So, my observation was/is, a nice forum, well managed, but just not attracting 'new blood', but why?

 

From this, it lead to an inference that I was suggesting that it would, or should, become a monster forum, instead of just trying to answer the perfectly straight forward question I posed.

 

I like the forum, I contribute to its activity, and I help to support it financially, so why should this be misconstrued as me suggesting something that I'm not.

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

New members seem to come in waves, we get a few turn up then none for a month or two then a few turn up. Most new members seem to come via recommendation rather than by finding us on the web, we dont advertise and we did suffer a total failure and change of URL a year ago when the old URL expired and the owner couldnt be contacted to get it renewed so we had to rebuild from scratch. Thats probably not helping with the new members finding us at the moment as we aren't as high on google as we used to be.  

 

Thank you Richard, a logical reply to my question

 

BTW, last night I went along to a local photography club, to see what they were all about. There I met a lady, also there on a first visit, who had bought her first DSLR and wanting to learn more about using it. I suggested that she had a look at TIPF, as I believe she would benefit from it.

 

I gave her the details, and hopefully she will join us.

 

Dave

[Guest]

its one of the reasons the place is so friendly because so many members are here through recommendation. Also there are so many discussions on here where people have different opinions without there being any arguments thats very rare on forums 

[DaveS]

I also don't see any point in encouraging younger members as opposed to older members,

 

Beth, 'new blood' refers to new members, both young, in the middle, and old.

 

Nice 'post' though.

 

Dave

[Denis]

Could it be that the quality of photography seen on here may put people off? Many people on here submit outstanding pieces of work that the more amateur side couldnt hope to compete with. Bear with me on this for a second or so....

 

My theory is born from my own time looking for an amateur forum site where I could learn a bit about a subject hobby I drifted into. Now I am never going to be a great photographer, I take pictures for my own benefit. More along the lines of snapshots but hoping they are a little better than the average. Occasionaly I post one or two, mostly I keep my efforts to myself. but I do like to see what others are doing and draw some ideas and some knowledge along the way.

 

But then some of you are already established photographers in your own right. Many of you showcase your work every day, and very good it is too! Some post a lot of their really good work prolifically after joining, and it could be that those lurking as guests might think that their efforts might not be up to a standard good enough for the forum.  I too have seen other forums where everyone is falling over themselves posting images as if it were a competition. For photography does seem to me to be a very competitive hobby where your latest effort must be posted as quickly as possible to gain adoring praise and adulation, all well and good if you are at that standard...but many of us are not!

 

Perhaps a newcomers sub section for the very amateur poster may wean more to the site, if numbers are what is needed. The very experienced ones here could help with tutorials, advice and suggestions. Personally, I like how things are here, If what I post does not work, a few are happy to put me right, and I learn from that. But there are those out there who are reluctant to post their efforts on a forum for fear of ridicule. Some of those might think that this forum is therefore like the rest..but it aint! TIPF is kind of unique in that quarter.

 

Just my two bobs worth!

[Beth]

I'm also with John but ( this is where I get hung drawn quartered, salt rubbed and left out for the crows) I do feel if we could draw in some younger peoples with varied interests we would continue to grow a little (not too much though as said below if there were thousands of members we'd all start leaving)

 

 

 

Ha ha, yes, I'm aware of the definition of 'new blood'.........., not sure why you would point that out, but I was referring to (but not criticising) the comment that mrwall made.  

 

Personally, It doesn't matter who joins, 'younger OR older' members. Both may have varied interests, often the older, more than the younger!

 

If new younger members joined and it retained their activity, then all the better, but what would you suggest in order to attract these members and move forward with the point you have raised?

 

I belong to a number of art and craft forums and by jove, members join and then make a few posts and that's it.  Many of the sites have a descent number of members, they have good art work and attractive front pages, but in my opinion, with members coming and going........well, I think 'it just happens', I don't really see a problem! This is just my humble opinion though.

 

Tis all healthy discussion.

[Phil]

TIPF was born on the 22nd August 2006, making us just over 7 years old.

 

Dave, in response to your initial query, I was relying on IPB's own spam monitoring service to weedle out the unwanted. Unfortunately it wasn't quite living up to expectations so I switched to physically banning certain emails i.e. @gmail, @googlemail, @hotmail etc. with the instruction to use the Contact form if anyone genuinely wanted to join. It worked for a while but it became apparent that potential new members would see this as a chore and not bother.

I then switched to another anti-spam service (it will have been in place when you first attempted to join) which I believed to be working until you brought the issue to my attention.

 

All restrictions have now been lifted although new registrations will need to be vetted by myself before they have full posting access to the board.

[DaveS]

What an excellent 'post' Denis.

 

You raise some VERY valid and constructive points.

 

On my forum, we have an 'Early Learners' section aimed precisely at what you are suggesting. Here, new and inexperienced members can 'post' their images, without feeling that they are competing with the more experienced members. Not that the more experienced members would see it that way, even if the new members posted in the general section of the 'board'.

 

Nobody is going to 'look down their nose' at the work of the novice, and if they did, then they would certainly have no place on my forum, nor this one I'm sure.

 

When guests/visitors to my forum arrive at the 'Welcome Guest' page (registered member don't see this page), where we explain what the forum is all about, one paragraph reads:

 

"We welcome astro-imagers at all levels, whether experienced of beginner, and all of our members are of equal status, with none of the usual 'ranking structure' based on 'Post Count'

 

Perhaps something along these lines would take away the potential fear of being 'out of their depth' that a potential member may have.

 

Its all about creating the right image (no pun intended ), one of a forum that is as welcoming to novice photographers, as it is experts, and here TIPF could come across as 'the friendly forum', which of course we know it is.

 

Dave

[DaveS]

TIPF was born on the 22nd August 2006, making us just over 7 years old.

 

Dave, in response to your initial query, I was relying on IPB's own spam monitoring service to weedle out the unwanted. Unfortunately it wasn't quite living up to expectations so I switched to physically banning certain emails i.e. @gmail, @googlemail, @hotmail etc. with the instruction to use the Contact form if anyone genuinely wanted to join. It worked for a while but it became apparent that potential new members would see this as a chore and not bother.

I then switched to another anti-spam service (it will have been in place when you first attempted to join) which I believed to be working until you brought the issue to my attention.

 

All restrictions have now been lifted although new registrations will need to be vetted by myself before they have full posting access to the board.

 

Hi Phil

 

Yep, that all makes sense now, and I can understand what you were trying to achieve.

 

Spammers do tend to use the e-mail addresses that you refer to. Unfortunately, so do a lot of genuine applicants, and of course banning these e-mails may well have cost you good members, especially if as you say, they found using the contact form, just in order to register, a chore.

 

I don't use my personal e-mail address for any forum registration (not even my own), but use a secondary one, albeit still an @btinternet.com address. But the registration procedure wouldn't accept that either.

 

As I told you, my co-admin and myself personally vet every new registration, and it has proved 100% effective in keeping the forum free of 'spam' for over 4 years now. The downside is of course, that its a bit of a chore.

 

I'm sure that a lot of forum members (any forum), don't realise what's involved in running and maintaining a forum.

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[geodar]

what a good response to this topic, for a small member based site the comments have been interesting, ranging from what could be done to do nothing. long standing and new(ish) members have put the point as to why they use tipf.

 

my little input-

over the years, like others I have been a member of larger sites, soon drifted away because, as others have said there were too many people competing against each other, no to little comments on images, some were nasty people, only there to create disharmony and upset some members.

 

when I decided that I would like to join a site I had a look round, found this one and after a few visits decided to join, wasn't sure how long I would stay, still don't, but the reason I have stayed so far is because it has a certain pace about it.

not too fast nor too slow, the people on here will input their points either in comments or photographs, give advice on how to improve or this is the way I would have taken it.

the images are over all varied, from 100 year images to a fresh garden flower, portraits, scenic, street, macro and various other images are shown and have been commented on.

points of view and advice wanted/given, suggested sites to help improve and for information offered, encouragement is in abundance from members.

you don't always find this on the larger sites.

 

new blood (all ages) is always welcome, in the few years I have been a member I have seen people return (found new interest in their hobby or updated their equipment) or just new members who have found what they are looking for in a site and like what they see whether it is for photographic use or social use, some watch/read and learn, others show their images regardless in the knowledge that although they may get criticism it is given in a friendly way with suggestions to improve.

 

how to get new blood onto the site?

don't know, companies spend millions per year trying to entice 'new blood' to go to them, if it's not what your looking for you'll not go/shop/use their services.

 

I for one think that new members will join over the coming months. years, just like we all did, (we were all new blood when we first joined), once they find what they are looking for.

 

geoff 

[Black Pearl]

My thoughts:

 

Part of the reason for a slow intake of new members could be our Independence - our lack of affiliation with any brand or genre. People searching the web for a site to join will see the usual monsters like Flickr and dpreview then look for forums that have a leaning towards either their equipment....I don't know say.....nikonisbetterthancanon.com or their interest.....justquaversandpringles.com. Photography is a hobby for most of us and as such can be a very personal thing. Finding a forum where the interests of other align with our own is a comfort and as such will have a strong appeal. 

 

TIPF has no such leanings, we have members with just about every brand of camera, photographs are posted showing just about every subject.....boobs are a bit thin on the ground but they're easy enough to find on the web should you desire......talk in general is varied and advice is freely given. All of these are a fantastic things and its why I love the site - but they could be a contributing factor for the slow intake of 'new blood.' 

 

That said I'm an active member of a brand specific forum and while its one of the largest brands the site is not the main landing place for people searching the web. It too is friendly, has a core of dedicated members, has a 'we all know each other' feel to the comments and it too has a slow intake of new blood. It, like TIPF, ticks along happily and the people who do join, stay for more than a few weeks become part of the family "planeteers" as we're known...don't ask....and I feel the forum is stronger because of it.

 

We do need new blood and we do need to actively attract new blood but I don't feel it is harming the forum at the moment that we don't have a rush on. If activity starts to show a drop or we start to lose members...some of you are pretty ancient and might not have that many shutter activations left...we will have to do something different.

Until then I'm happy with our current formula.

[Kobione]

As I have said before I am unashamedly more of a social member than a 'techno' member. I do have real fun with my own level of photography, and since being here I have learned!! Surprise!!

 

From my point of view I feel comfortable with things as they are, but having been heavily involved in another forum, not photography related, I do understand that numbers can be crucial to help things remain active and vibrant, and it has been a shame to see some regular posters from the past have disappeared.

 

I originally searched UK photography forums for somewhere that I could 'feel part of the gang', without being too large in numbers, and without being critisied too heavily for my basic skills, and that gave me a UK connection, which I love. This place is 'home away from home' for me, and I love it, thanks to all

[FUJI]

OOOOER! BP!

Me shutter activations are diminishing.............is there a tablet for that? ;-)

Just another pennorth then I'll shut up..........When I became a new member in the early days, I had just retired and decided that photography was going to be one way to keep my increasingly aging brain from seizing up.......I purchased what was probably the worst Chinese made Bridge Camera ever, the delay in focussing and the loud noises it made were laughable.......I joined TIPF, Posting what were probably the worst shots ever seen on here ( not joking) ......the, then, established members including BP and Phil soon took me under their respective photographic wings.......within a year or so, I had to fool 'Er indoors that a new camera was essential.....I acquired a SONY A500 ........again via advice via TIPF I ventured, into lenses, old and new, tripods and other bits of kit, plus vastly improving my processing skills using my established business graphics software of Corel Draw and Corel Paint, this was soon swapped for Photoshop.........Today, thanks to the advice and guidance received on here, I post much improved work across the genres.....it stands to reason then, that a rank beginner, like wot I used to be, might be inhibited from posting their initial snaps, when they see my current output......but No!

The same gang are here to help, advise, cajole, enable, raw beginners as always.........we all have to start somewhere and TIPF is one of the best forums to do so.........plus the bonus of real humour and back-chat that helps to oil the wheels.

..............................He fades into the distance, camera in hand, a muttering and a wondering just how many shutter activations he has left.......Then his face brightens.......There might be a little blue pill that will help ;-)

Exits Stage Left..............Whistling........

FUJI

[Terry]

.....He fades into the distance, camera in hand, a muttering and a wondering just how many shutter activations he has left.......Then his face brightens.......There might be a little blue pill that will help ;-) Exits Stage Left..............Whistling........

Love it. If you find that little blue pill Fuji please let me know   

[Guest DaveW]

As I indicated before, most conventional societies or groups are going through the lack of young members syndrome.  We always assume as adults the young want what we wanted at their age, but that is not true anymore than when we were young we wanted what our parents wanted when they were young.  As an example as to how the attitude of the young changes, at one time it was the aspiration of every American youth to drive and own a car as soon as they could get a licence. However cars are now "old hat" seemingly for their youth and a smartphone or games console now outranks the automobile for desirability, and American trends usually eventually spread to the UK.

 

http://business.time.com/2013/08/09/the-great-debate-do-millennials-really-want-cars-or-not/

 

I am afraid nobody over 25 usually knows what the youth of today wants, you have to ask the youngsters themselves and probably "real cameras" and "photography" as a hobby have probably been replaced by casual photography using the smartphone just for use on social networking sites rather than specialist photography ones. The picture now has become just an illustration to enhance what they are discussing on social media, not a stand alone entity for artistic purposes, and the in's and out's of how it was taken or what it was taken with are of little interest in their discussion.

 

Probably the real answer for the young is photography, as with many interests previous generations followed, is no longer "sexy"?

Edited September 14, 2013 by DaveW

[FUJI]

Honestly......this is the kind of thing I was posting, when I first Joined TIPF................Well!....I got close to a bird....Didn't I ;-)

 

You can see that I needed all the help that could be thrown at me...I was totally ignorant of JPEGS, posting sizes, mega-Pixels.....I just enjoyed pointing the camera on auto and shooting what I saw:

 

Did I need help and advice?....You Bet!

 

NOT best viewed LARGE by clicking on Pic ;-)

 

FUJI

[annie]

NOT best viewed LARGE by clicking on Pic ;-)

 

   

[Leon]

Fuji, thats the best one I'v EVER seen you post...WELL DONE!!!!  POTW 

[DaveS]

TIPF was born on the 22nd August 2006, making us just over 7 years old.

 

Dave, in response to your initial query, I was relying on IPB's own spam monitoring service to weedle out the unwanted. Unfortunately it wasn't quite living up to expectations so I switched to physically banning certain emails i.e. @gmail, @googlemail, @hotmail etc. with the instruction to use the Contact form if anyone genuinely wanted to join. It worked for a while but it became apparent that potential new members would see this as a chore and not bother.

I then switched to another anti-spam service (it will have been in place when you first attempted to join) which I believed to be working until you brought the issue to my attention.

 

All restrictions have now been lifted although new registrations will need to be vetted by myself before they have full posting access to the board.

 

"Why isn't TIPF attracting new members"

 

I believe that Phil has now answered this question

 

When I decided to register with this forum, I tried multiple times, using the registration procedure provided, but this failed every time.

 

I was just about to give up, when I noticed the option to register via Google, used this, and it worked fine.

 

However, if I didn't have a Google account, I would not have been able to register. I don't do things like 'Twitter' and 'Facbook' etc. 'Twitter' being another means of registering with this forum.

 

Phil wasn't aware of the problem, until I made him aware of it via a PM, and as you can see, Phil has now addressed the problem, and removed the obstacle to people registering.

 

I have no doubt that problem turned away people looking to join TIPF. It almost turned me away, albeit I'm now left with the feeling that some of you wish it had, but I'll get over it

 

Thanks to all that responded to this 'thread', it shows that in your own way, you have a vested interest in this forum.

 

Dave

Edited September 14, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

Oh, I almost forgot to say that:

 

I hope that even at 71, I have a few more 'clicks' left in my 'shutter' to enjoy my hobbies, grandchildren, and your company here.

 

Dave

Edited September 14, 2013 by DaveS

[Guest DaveW]

You mean due to TIPF you don't get over-sharpening halos like that on birds now Fuji?  

 

For those that don't know what they are, and most of us have had them at one time or another, particularly when we first started sharpening digital images ourselves:-

 

http://www.tipsfromthetopfloor.com/psc/psc04.php

 

http://www.dpchallenge.com/tutorial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=80

 

I never noticed them at first when I first started sharpening images until somebody pointed them out to me and said I was trying to over sharpen an image when they appeared.

[ChrisLumix]

You mean due to TIPF you don't get over-sharpening halos like that on birds now Fuji?  

 

For those that don't know what they are, and most of us have had them at one time or another, particularly when we first started sharpening digital images ourselves:-

 

http://www.tipsfromthetopfloor.com/psc/psc04.php

 

http://www.dpchallenge.com/tutorial.php?TUTORIAL_ID=80

 

I never noticed them at first when I first started sharpening images until somebody pointed them out to me and said I was trying to over sharpen an image when they appeared.

 

Funnily enough, I recently noticed these in iPhoto as soon as I applied the Sharpening to a particular picture, so in the end I left it unsharpened. But generally, I don't see them in either iPhoto or Photoshop.

 

My own settings for Unsharp Mask are:

Amount : 50%

Radius : 0.5 pixels

Threshold : default

I find this gives a gentle subtle sharpen, that can be applied perhaps up to 4 times to a good image before it starts to degrade noticeably.