Is there a problem, and if so what might it be?

[DaveS]

Its now just over two weeks since I joined this forum, and in that time, not a single new member has registered.

 

Also, studying the members list, there appears to be quite a few people, that joined, never 'posted' and left.

 

All forums have a turn over of members, with some losing interest, and new members joining, and my own forum is no different in this respect. However, we do have trickle of new members joining, even though we are a somewhat specialist forum.

 

There clearly is something that's putting off 'new blood' from joining TIPF, but I can't decide what this might be.

 

There were a couple of points relating to this, that I raised with Phil, and I know that one of these he has implemented.

 

From my perspective, there is nothing to dislike here. Its a nice community with a good spread of photographic expertise, ranging from people at the lower end of the 'learning curve', to experts willing to share their knowledge, and help others.

 

So what is it, that's preventing TIPF from attracting new members to replace those that have dropped off the end.?

 

Is it perhaps that there are more photography forums on the internet, than you could 'shake a stick at', or something more fundamental.?

 

My own personal opinion of course, but a forum that doesn't bring in 'new blood' with fresh ideas and experiences to share, can become very stale.

 

A great forum with nice people, but is it stuck in a 'rut'?

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[JohnP]

Personally I don't like forums with hundreds of members, images get lost because of the number posted... small and cosy suits me. I used to belong to another forum and I joined as member 270, in two years or so there were over two thousand members, it was impossible to keep up with posts so I left. It's hard enough keeping up on here sometimes.

Edited September 13, 2013 by JohnP

[bugmeister]

I'm with John on this one. I've been on a number of larger sites and they are generally nowhere near as welcoming as this, some are very cliquey (sp?) and some get downright nasty if you have the temerity to point out something you don't like about a picture.

 

The larger sites may have more members and have more pictures being posted but very few of them will have as much discussion on any picture, sometimes veering offtopic but hopefully still with relevance.

 

When people only join at a slow rate, they have the time to get to know the regulars and vice-versa before the next person comes along

 

Although there will always be people who don't contribute regularly or at all if they find other things to keep their interest, it'll always happen that way.

 

One of the biggest sites I know with many thousands of members struggles to get any discussion on many of the pictures posted, and the forums are much quieter than this!

 

yep, I'll pull up my armchair and keep comfortable.

[Barbara]

I don't see very much wrong when we have about 30 really active members posting and interacting with other members

If we are in a rut the it's very comfortable and friendly rut, Move over Bugs, make room for me

[Terry]

Totally agree with John & Bugs. I too have been on other forums but none are as friendly and welcoming as TIPF. My motto, "If it aint broke don't try to fix it*

[Guest DaveW]

That's something that happens on many forums. People join, never post and are often gone for good after a month or even a week when something else takes their interest.  Often photography is just a fleeting hobby because they have just bought a camera and though still occasionally using their new camera a new hobby will have taken over in a few weeks.

 

I was once on a macro forum that claimed well over a thousand members where hardly anybody posted or evidently logged on one month to the next, even the so called Moderators, or the Administrator who ran it for the owner. Few forums really know their actual membership, having many "dead men" on the books (some probably are actually dead) as they never purge their membership lists of anybody who has not logged on for say a year.  In the case of the macro site it was obvious why because they carried advertising and a bloated supposed members list fooled advertisers into keeping advertising.

 

In the end the inevitable happened due to no supervision, the site was flooded with porn links and Viagra advertising since there were no Mod's to remove it and eventually closed.

 

With organisations where there is a yearly subscription required it is obvious who has renewed or not that year. However as most Internet sites are free I doubt most of them know their true membership unless there is a yearly purge of all who have not logged on for 12 months.  Therefore I think you will find most membership lists are out of date and fallacious, never being purged of "dead men" since they started.  I once was a member of a site that did purge the supposed members list of those who had not logged on for 12 months, and though they had what seemed a much smaller membership than many similar sites, at least the membership was active as they knew if they did not log on for 12 months they would be removed and have to sign on again if they returned later.

 

In my primary hobby in a non web based conventional subscription based society our membership has fallen from over 4000 at it's height in the 1960's to just over 1000 now.  The reason is people have so many more interests available to them now and many people often keep jumping grasshopper like to a new one every year or so, if not more often. 

 

In the 1950's there would be a queue around the cinema on Saturday night as that and the dance hall were the only entertainment in town. People had to go to the local pub since the bus to town was their only transport because they did not have cars.  Now they can pile into their car and go out for a meal to a place 15-20 miles away, plus there are countless other entertainments for them and they have thousands of forums on the web so can keep jumping from one to another.

 

I am afraid the only membership that is worthwhile are the ones that stay, many signing on I am afraid will be transitory anyway.

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveW

[annie]

I like things just the way they are here on tipf. had one experience of big a site and it was awful. the amount of grown adults causing trouble, bickering and arguing was beyond belief.

Edited September 13, 2013 by annie

[Leon]

I'm also with John but ( this is where I get hung drawn quartered, salt rubbed and left out for the crows) I do feel if we could draw in some younger peoples with varied interests we would continue to grow a little (not too much though as said below if there were thousands of members we'd all start leaving)

 

I used to run a Honda based car forum, people would join just for a certain bit of information and never post, also people from other forums would join to steal ideas (although you cannot steal good will and friendliness) 

 

I did suggest a while back some car stickers but www.tipf.co.uk  would not give away what the forum is about so would not work, if you added some kind of camera logo to it scroates may take that as an invite to break into your car thinking you may have camera equipment in your car?

 

the other things left are social media, the facebook and flickr pages are rarely used.

 

I guess the admin have registered with google ect... you can buy pay per click but from experience this can work out costly.

 

 

 

oh and my biggest gripe id that posts disappear so quickly  after 5-10 replies

Edited September 13, 2013 by mrwall

[colinb]

I think in some ways this kind of forum is 'old style' with Facebook and Twitter things often seem much faster, more instant  (but not necessary better)  these are really what the 20-35 generation tend to use. I often use the AP forum which is huge compared to TPIF but no where near as personal, quite like this one the way it is    

[bugmeister]

the other things left are social media, the facebook and flickr pages are rarely used.

 

Or maybe just the members talk to other people that they meet when out taking photographs?

 

You can blame Annie for me being here because she did just that  (but please forgive her )

[annie]

talk to anyone me....!

[DaveS]

Interesting inputs guys.

 

Like you, I don't like large forums, especially those that count their members in the thousands, but when a forum isn't replacing its 'deadwood', there has to be an underlying reason for this.

 

This forum attracted me, and believe me, I looked at quite a lot, but  why isn't it attracting say, even one new member a week?

 

I can't see why this is the case, but then maybe I can't see the 'wood for the trees', and thought by throwing this open for discussion someone might just have some constructive thoughts, as opposed to the complacent approach.

 

Most forums, and having communicated with Phil, not this one, like to play the 'numbers game, aka 'my forums bigger than yours', and store all their long since inactive accounts, to show a large, but untrue membership number.

 

As I do with my forum, Phil 'prunes out the deadwood'.

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked what I saw here, I joined, and within few day of being here, contributed financially to the upkeep of this forum, so in a sense, I have a genuine interest in its wellbeing and success.

 

However, irrespective of your views, whether they align with mine, or you are happy with the status quo, and have no desire to see the forum continue grow, albeit slowly, the question I posed remains unanswered:

 

Why is a nice forum like TIPF failing to attract new members?

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

I like things just the way they are here on tipf. had one experience of big a site and it was awful. the amount of grown adults causing trouble, bickering and arguing was beyond belief.

 

That only happens on badly managed sites Annie, and this isn't one of them.

 

Dave

[annie]

and it's all down to our wonderful admin team that is dave....

[JohnP]

This is a little off topic but I've no idea how many registered members we have, one would have to look at the members list and count them. This info used to be at the bottom of the home page and it also used to show the newest member and when they joined. That disappeared a while ago.... unless It's been moved and I'm missing it. 

[DaveS]

and it's all down to our wonderful admin team that is dave....

 

Absolutely Annie

 

Running a forum takes time, commitment, and being willing to put your hand in your pocket. Believe me, having being doing this for over four years now, I speak from experience.

 

So yes, I have a very good idea of what goes on behind the scenes here, and appreciate it.

 

It must be a human trait, that when someone raises a question that they genuinely believe is in the best interest of something, some folk will go on the defensive.

 

I'm not 'knocking' this forum, I'm trying to help it evolve and survive.

 

The question that nobody has yet attempted to answer is, why is the forum failing to attract new members?

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[JohnP]

I have no idea what the answer to your question is, but the forum has survived for ..... I'm only guessing, but it must surely be 5-6 years. When I joined it was run by a guy named Ben... I can't remember his surname. Can anyone else say they have been here as long?

[ChrisLumix]

Personally I don't like forums with hundreds of members, images get lost because of the number posted... small and cosy suits me. I used to belong to another forum and I joined as member 270, in two years or so there were over two thousand members, it was impossible to keep up with posts so I left. It's hard enough keeping up on here sometimes.

 

Too right. I joined because LumixUserUK closed down due to spammers. But even so, that was too small in terms of active members. dpreview, on the other hand, is ridiculously large though they do of course have all the equipment tests and reviews as well. TIPF seems like an ideal size.

[DaveS]

I think that like me John, you are getting 'long in the tooth' (I'm 71), and the fact that you have been here for 5-6 years, would IMO, make you one of the 'corner stones' of this forum.

 

However, forums such as this, need an intake of 'young blood' to stimulate fresh discussion. Having my grandchildren around me, keeps me young at heart, if not giving my ageing body a run for its money.   

 

Encouraging young people, and even not so young people, to get into photography, helping them to develop their skills, is what forums like this should be doing. The 'old hands' being there to help and advise.

 

Far better that they are attracted to a forum like this, as opposed to some of the 'bear pit' forums out there

 

Dave

Edited September 13, 2013 by DaveS

[colinb]

 

The question that nobody has yet attempted to answer is, why is the forum failing to attract new members?

 

Dave

 

er.. I thought I had?

 

 

I think in some ways this kind of forum is 'old style' with Facebook and Twitter things often seem much faster, more instant  (but not necessary better)  these are really what the 20-35 generation tend to use

 

If you use twitter you will find many thriving photography forums, same with facebook but they are often 'by invite only'

Edited September 13, 2013 by colinb

[DaveS]

The thinking seems to be that I am suggesting that TIPF should grow into a 'monster forum', and I fail to see where I have even remotely suggested this.

 

The point I have been trying to make, which seems to have been taken way off track, is that the forum is failing to attract new members, for whatever reason.

 

Every forum, however small, will lose members, for a multitude of reasons, and as such needs to attract new members, even if this is just a trickle.

 

So, going back to where I started, TIPF is a nice forum, which should stand out among all the 'bear pit' forums, so why isn't it attracting people. I don't know the answer to this, and it seems that nobody else does.

 

Dave

Edited September 14, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

I don't see that you have Colin, albeit you do at least try and address the question.

 

My forum is about as remote from Twittter, Facbook, and Flicks cultures, as it is possible to be, and yet our youngest member is 16 years old, with membership at every age right through to 'old gits' like me, and beyond.

 

Dave

[FUJI]

Over the years since I joined as a very raw around The edges ( photography wise) mature member, there have been participating members of all ages and ability, at least two went to University, and we lost touch after they graduated.

Others move on, then return later, others just fade away......the stalwarts stayed strong for around a year when there seemed to be only four of us regular posters ( easy to get POTW then ;-).......we stuck it out......Phil, BP, and Richard, rebranded us and came up with the black format, that most of us really like.

Then we suffered another setback with server problems as described elsewhere.....TIPF was dead.....or it seemed so.....not having it around created quite a sense of loss....but, email and social media came to the rescue as we found each other again, and TIPF was reborn ....... To develop into the friendly, welcoming forum it is today.

Of course, having a core group of long established members means that it might appear to be in a rut......but appearances can be deceptive........all of our mature members, including myself, dare to experiment, use vintage lenses, use Photoshop and other photo software conventionally and experimentally ......we go out of our way to make new and younger members welcome.......sometimes, our way of putting words may not seem or look right to much younger Digital age members.....but remember, that we come from the age of film and mono only.......The membership of all Forum, Group or Club waxes and wanes, especially if long established.....long term members, have built up real friendships, but may have never met, or, have enjoyed a day shooting together, then enjoying a pub lunch....

An old, rather ....stuck-in-a-rut ....oldie I may be, but how many 75 year olds do you know with an iPad, Smartphone, Tablet PC, and a desktop and using CS6, never mind three cameras and allied lenses.....a fixed income, and poor eyesight means that I don't drive anymore ......then I go to a City Centre and get jumped by security guards for being a photographer.

As you know, I'm currently restoring and archiving over three hundred 100 year old negatives.......on Sunday, I will be giving two talks on a wartime anti aircraft site.......I am also co- writing a book about it.....I just don't have time to get into a rut.....I guess, also that neither does Korky or Nanny, we just come from older generations with different norms and expectations.

Over the years, I have heard similar comments to yours in all the clubs and organisations I have been a member of......they all get into semi doldrums if he membership is long established, it usually resolves itself in time......

We are what we are.......a family orientated, friendly, very active forum, that welcomes new contributing members from all age groups and of all abilities.

I am also a member of a well know huge forum.....LOVE IT......it is where I learn photography in a different and rathe impersonal way.

I'm of......Rutting now;-)

FUJI

[Martyn]

Well for what it's worth, I've only been here for a few months. Since I joined I've seen at least two others join in and become regular contributors. I make that one active member a month joining TIPF, that seems ok to me!

[DaveS]

We are what we are.......a family orientated, friendly, very active forum, that welcomes new contributing members from all age groups and of all abilities.

 

 

Thank you for that Fuji, it reinforces the point I've been trying to make since I started this 'thread'.

 

That's exactly what this forum is

 

As such it should be seen as very attractive, but it just isn't attracting 'young, and not so young, new blood.

 

Your response is very well thought out, and I can relate to all of what you say

 

Dave