A big decision

[Brian]

I have been agonising for a while now over what to upgrade to. I have sort of come to the conclusion that the Nikon D7100 or the Canon 70D would fit the bill. Both are in the price range I am looking at and as far as I can tell both are very nice pieces of kit. But there is nothing like hands on experience.

Does anyone out there in TIPF land have any harsh words, or otherwise to say about either camera.

As I don't have any lenses, would you go for a kit or body only and buy second hand lenses as they become available.

Does anyone know of any second hand stuff that could influence my decision.

Do you think a different brand in the same price range is better.

I am keen to hear what you have to say.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Brian

[ChrisLumix]

I have been agonising for a while now over what to upgrade to. I have sort of come to the conclusion that the Nikon D7100 or the Canon 70D would fit the bill. Both are in the price range I am looking at and as far as I can tell both are very nice pieces of kit. But there is nothing like hands on experience.

Does anyone out there in TIPF land have any harsh words, or otherwise to say about either camera.

As I don't have any lenses, would you go for a kit or body only and buy second hand lenses as they become available.

Does anyone know of any second hand stuff that could influence my decision.

Do you think a different brand in the same price range is better.

I am keen to hear what you have to say.

 

Since you don't have any lenses and are not committed to any particular system, why do you narrow yourself down to Nikon and Canon? It is well more than a decade since they were the only serious system cameras. Now you can buy into Pentax, Olympus, Fuji, Sony or Panasonic. You will get more 'bang for your buck' and in time - unless you are going for the ultimate in pricey system accessories - you can build up a decent system for far less than if you restrict yourself to those two very good but probably overpriced marques.

[Black Pearl]

Limited by lens choice or not the best brands for DSLR photography are still Nikon and Canon. If we're talking long term cost then buying a DX body now with good full frame glass gives the option to get a FF body in the future. Not everyone will want to but the options make them a good buy - bare in mind glass is the main expense and getting it to last for as long as possible is the way to go.

 

Pentax comes close, their K3 is astonishingly good and I'm very tempted but their lens range is either a bit naff or hideously expensive with oddball focal lengths and apertures - there are good bits of 'kit' glass in their but upgrade choices are weird.

 

Sony don't do DSLR's so it comes down to the electronic viewfinder - some like them (Fuji for instance) and some don't....on a side note their UI is a bit gimmicky, they build is iffy and they can feel naff. The mirrorless cameras are lovely but the OEM lens choice is grim.

 

As to Panasonic and Olympus then they are a different kettle of fish altogether - they use smaller sensors and while they are very good and get very good reviews you are ultimately limited in what they can achieve. You will struggle to get a narrow DoF without spending a bucket load or buying weird-beard old manual glass and when push comes to shove the high iso's are still lacking. They are however small, light, fast, gave good features and the video from them is excellent.

 

Fuji is an interesting choice of late. I will jump ship to their X Series (hopefully) this year......but......and its a very big but you need to be very aware of what they offer, what you may be giving up by moving to them and understand the that the body controls are traditional not modern. The lens range is improving but it is a prime lens lead range and that may not be for everyone.

 

 

As to the D7100/70D you really, really need to go have a play. They have very different feels and it could just be that you prefer one to the other. Spec wise there's sod all in it, lens range is excellent, build is superb and the availability of accessories is second to none. 

My personal preference is towards Nikon but I have used them for 30 years so my muscle memory tends to prefer their way of operating.

[colinb]

not sure if this is any help but I own a Nikon D7000 and find it a very capable camera, although it took me a little while to get used to how it focuses compared to my D80 I have never regretted buying it.

 

Incidentally it is still a very good camera and still very available and now at some very affordable pricing

 

http://www.portusdigital.com/nikon-d7000-dslr-camera-18-55mm-vr-lens.html

Edited April 1, 2014 by colinb

[ChrisLumix]

Sony don't do DSLR's so it comes down to the electronic viewfinder - some like them (Fuji for instance) and some don't....on a side note their UI is a bit gimmicky, they build is iffy and they can feel naff. The mirrorless cameras are lovely but the OEM lens choice is grim.

 

As to Panasonic and Olympus then they are a different kettle of fish altogether - they use smaller sensors and while they are very good and get very good reviews you are ultimately limited in what they can achieve. You will struggle to get a narrow DoF without spending a bucket load or buying weird-beard old manual glass and when push comes to shove the high iso's are still lacking. They are however small, light, fast, gave good features and the video from them is excellent.

 

 

 

 

Eh? What about the Alpha series?? As for the glass, don't Sony use Zeiss - which even back in the 1970s was considered to be the best?

 

 

not sure if this is any help but I own a Nikon D7000 and find it a very capable camera, although it took me a little while to get used to how it focuses compared to my D80 I have never regretted buying it.

 

Indecently it is still a very good camera and still very available and now at some very affordable pricing

 

http://www.portusdigital.com/nikon-d7000-dslr-camera-18-55mm-vr-lens.html

 

[GreenKing]

I have a D7100 and I am more than happy with it. The kit lens is the 18-105mm. If I want a small zoom then the 18-55mm is more than adequate, it is lighter and more portable to carry around, plus it is inexpensive and you can acquire a 2nd hand one at a  reasonable price. For telephoto work I have the 55-200mm and 55-300mm and they are both excellent. If you go for the D7100 then buy the body only and source your lenses separately.

 

My last 4 cameras have been Nikon and I wouldn't change to any other make. Having said that it is a matter of personal choice and the only way you are going to know which camera is for you is get the feel of them and handle them. A good camera shop will let you do this.

 

Good luck with your choice.

[Black Pearl]

Alpha's are DSLT's not DSLR's

There are a limited range of dedicated E mount lenses for the Mirrorless range and yes five are Zeiss branded but they start at £699.

I'm assuming that someone interested in a DSLR - that's a R not a T is also interested in building a system that is affordable and future proof. Canon and Nikon still hold that place in the current photographic world though I'll admit they need to make an effort to stay there.

[Brian]

There are a limited range of dedicated E mount lenses for the Mirrorless range and yes five are Zeiss branded but they start at £699.

 

 

699 quid is a bit beyond my means. 

 

At present I have a Nikon P520 with a feature I wouldn't want to be without, and that's the fully articulated screen. This may seem a bit irrelevant but it's a great idea and would loath to loose it.

Does anyone have any comments on this aspect. One way or the other.

[colinb]

699 quid is a bit beyond my means. 

 

At present I have a Nikon P520 with a feature I wouldn't want to be without, and that's the fully articulated screen. This may seem a bit irrelevant but it's a great idea and would loath to loose it.

Does anyone have any comments on this aspect. One way or the other.

 I too thought this would be something I miss and to a very small degree still do but using the screen may mean you need to use 'Live View' and that in its self can be a challenge, due to slower shutter speeds, unless you have the camera on a tripod 

[Black Pearl]

Colin - Using a view finder optical or electronic and using a rear LCD fixed or articulated has no affect on the shutter speeds available. On a DSLR you'll get a small delay as the mirror drop, the camera resets and then takes a picture but that has nothing to do with the actual shutter speed.

Brian - If you're used to an articulated screen you will miss is like mad. Knowing that bit of info I'd go with the 70D.

[Brian]

Brian - If you're used to an articulated screen you will miss is like mad. Knowing that bit of info I'd go with the 70D.

 

I was half hoping someone would say that!

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Brian

[ChrisLumix]

Alpha's are DSLT's not DSLR's

There are a limited range of dedicated E mount lenses for the Mirrorless range and yes five are Zeiss branded but they start at £699.

I'm assuming that someone interested in a DSLR - that's a R not a T is also interested in building a system that is affordable and future proof. Canon and Nikon still hold that place in the current photographic world though I'll admit they need to make an effort to stay there.

 

Isn't that nitpicking slightly? A DSLT is simply a 'latest technology' version of a DSLR. Why would anyone narrow their wants to cameras with a clunky moving mirror when there are now cameras that can use a fixed mirror (which by the way was first proposed by Canon in the 1960s apparently)? Modern EVFs - e.g. as in the Lumix GX7 - are now so good that you'd be hard pressed to choose between them and an optical VF. The image quality and sensor size etc etc, are unaffected, so it's no real inhibition to a DSLx buyer one way or the other. Flipping mirrors have always been a necessary compromise, not an inherent mark of quality.

[JohnP]

I was half hoping someone would say that!

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

I have a Canon 60D and a Panasonic FZ100, both have an articulated screen, I would never buy another camera without this feature.

[ChrisLumix]

I have a Canon 60D and a Panasonic FZ100, both have an articulated screen, I would never buy another camera without this feature.

 

Unfortunately my FZ38 doesn't - however, it does have an EVF which, though delivering an inferior live image compared to the LCD, helps to prevent camera shake.

[Black Pearl]

Nit picking?

Have a look at what I originally posted:

Sony don't do DSLR's so it comes down to the electronic viewfinder - some like them (Fuji for instance) and some don't.

That is a simple fact and an observation meant to help the Brian. I'm terribly sorry if you think this is wrong in some way or if you don't agree with it but I still stand by it. They are not the same, they are a personal choice and if someone (possibly Brian) wasn't aware that the Sony range of cameras that look like SLR's are fundamentally different then my post was simply meant to point this out.

By the way the fixed mirrors in a Sony DSLT do affect the quality - they reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor so the processor has to compensate with extra gain causing an increase in noise levels at higher ISO's.

Back to actually helping Brian. I would still try and get your hands on the two cameras but I would also look into the likely lenses you are thinking about - now and in the near future. See which brand has the ones you are likely to want and see if the offerings are suitable.

Still think the Canon will be the better choice as that screen is hard to give up.

[Guest]

I can't help on the specifics but thanks for the info on DSLT's; never heard of that before, although I had heard of the Sony Alpha range of course.

[colinb]

Colin - Using a view finder optical or electronic and using a rear LCD fixed or articulated has no affect on the shutter speeds available. 

 

 yes BP I know that, I'm talking about using Lv and when using Lv the exif info tells me the shutter speed is slightly slower than if I focus via the view finder?

[Black Pearl]

A shutter speed is a shutter speed - if you set it that's what you'll get.

 

That said the exposure meters in some cameras (particularly SLR's) are influenced by light coming into the viewfinder - hence the little caps supplied with cheaper cameras and actual eye piece shutters on top end bodies for when you don't have your eye up to them. It is possible this will affect automatic exposure resulting in a higher shutter speed when in Live View but I can't be certain. I've never noticed it on my Nikon D300s or the Pentax K30, the latter of which I use in LV quite often as it has Focus Peaking which is brilliant for manual focus confirmation. To test it move your hand alternatively over and away from the viewfinder when you are using your camera in LV and see if the metering changes.

[colinb]

Worth a try but to be honest I only really use Lv on close-up shots similar to you for the focus advantage it gives, but I'll try to remember to close off the view finder.