Flash Ring.

[JohnP]

I am considering buying a flash ring for use with my Canon 60D DSLR camera and Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM lens which has a 67mm filter thread. This is one flash ring I have been looking at http://www.sigma-ima...40ringflash.htm It looks like I would also have to purchase a 67mm Macro Flash Adapter. I can't seem to find out if this flash ring is compatible with my camera. As I've no experience of flash rings when taking macro shots I would appreciate any advice, would this Sigma be a good buy?

Edited November 21, 2012 by JohnP

[Guest DaveW]

Sounds as if it is a dedicated unit using the flash automation of the cameras listed. Not a Canon user so I had to look up E-TTL flash:-

http://www.canon.co....ash_System.aspx

The problem with ring flash was it produced flat lighting with little directional modeling. Early users used to get over this by taping over part of the ring etc. Later ring lights split the flash tube up into segments which could be used at different power settings to give some modeling, as with portraiture where you have a main light one side and a fill light the other.

As far as I can make out from your link though the Sigma ringlight does not have different power settings on each tube (unlike the Canon unit) but only both on or one off?

http://www.shutterbu...ashbrlord-rings

Ring flashes in recent years tend to have been replaced by twin macroflash units, same as this Canon one:-

http://photo.net/equ...on/macro-flash/

However the Sigma unit is probably a lot cheaper than either of the Canon units.

http://www.google.co...10&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=15837903966076724477&sa=X&ei=_wKtUNHhE4ep0AWxvoHoBw&ved=0CFgQ8wIwAw

http://www.wexphotog...cfcbltaodpgua8g

http://www.google.co...ved=0CDEQ8wIwAA

Edit: strange if you click the left hand end of the long link above it does not work, but if you click the right hand end it does!

I am a bit confused now as to if with the Sigma the power of both tubes can be controlled independently (as with the Canon unit) as your link seems to indicate it is either both tubes on or off, whereas this was stated in one of my links above:-

"The advantage of having two flash tubes, on opposite sides of the unit, is that you can create modeling by using one or the other tube for firing, or have both fire in equal (for flat illumination) power or control the output of each via power-ratio controls. The ability to work with asymmetrical output gives you a lot more creative control."

However if so power ratio control would mean it has similar features to the Canon ringlight and twin flash units and so good value. That is something though you could pre check with the seller.

DaveW

Edited November 21, 2012 by DaveW

[Phil]

Just checked and it is compatible with your camera. Can't give you any advise though as it's something I've never used.

[JohnP]

Thank you Dave... I will wide through this later.

Thanks Phil.

[FUJI]

John......from what I learned after winning one on eBay was that unless you are a dentist who wants flat shadowless shots of teeth or odd items....... I frankly wouldn't bother....... They make things look flat and uninteresting in my opinion......I resold it on eBay soon afterwards.

Instead you should save your dosh for something else photographic......then, if you want exciting lighting, or shadowless pics, but a few cheap LED torches, the ones with the very powerful Daylight LEDs......look back through my posts and you will see my experiments with light painting.........much more fun and very challenging.

If you are still ken, why not try to borrow one, so you can see first hand what it can do?

FUJI

[JohnP]

John......from what I learned after winning one on eBay was that unless you are a dentist who wants flat shadowless shots of teeth or odd items....... I frankly wouldn't bother....... They make things look flat and uninteresting in my opinion......I resold it on eBay soon afterwards.

Instead you should save your dosh for something else photographic......then, if you want exciting lighting, or shadowless pics, but a few cheap LED torches, the ones with the very powerful Daylight LEDs......look back through my posts and you will see my experiments with light painting.........much more fun and very challenging.

If you are still ken, why not try to borrow one, so you can see first hand what it can do?

FUJI

FUJI... I thought the one you won on eBay was a LED Ring or am talking rubbish.

[FUJI]

It was a ......Ring Flash.....won on eBay about three years ago......not the ring light that I purchased via eBay ....Buy it Now.....fairly recently.

Boy? You have a good memory? ;-)

Ring flashes do work but just give an all round flat light, ideal for dentists and those macro shooters who want featureless, shadowless shots of insects etc.......not for me.....which s why it went.

Other Members may wish to shoot me down?

FUJI

[annie]

i always have a small round LED torch in my pocket.....i have used it lots when i have snapped bugs...

[Guest DaveW]

Fuji's ring flash is the old basic type with a single circular flash tube. This does indeed only produce flat lighting. The later ones have switchable sections that can be set separately to different power settings to provide more modeling, as I earlier said for lights in portraiture. After all macro is often only portraiture in miniature. The ring flash you were looking at is one of the modern types with switchable halves than can be set to different power settings. I mentioned this difference in my first post:-

"The problem with ring flash was it produced flat lighting with little directional modeling. Early users used to get over this by taping over part of the ring etc. Later ring lights split the flash tube up into segments which could be used at different power settings to give some modeling, as with portraiture where you have a main light one side and a fill light the other."

To see the difference switchable settings for each half of the ring make see the second set of pictures down in this link where the first is set to 1:1 giving the same flat lighting if needed as Fuji's basic ring light, but the second is set to 8:1 ratio producing some shadowing to give modeling and bring out texture:-

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/sigma%E2%80%99s-em-140-dg-flashbrlord-rings

Only the cheap ringlights now have a single all-around flash tube. The more expensive now usually have independently switchable segments side to side with variable power settings for better modeling of the subject if required.

DaveW

[JohnP]

Thank you Dave for going to all this trouble, I really appreciate your help.

[Guest DaveW]

I can perhaps best show the evolution of macro ringlights etc with Nikon stuff.

Here is their earlier all-round single tube type such as Fuji has which can only produce flat lighting:-

http://www.mir.com.m...sb21/index7.htm

Here is the later version where the tube is split into two switchable halves which can be separately controlled to provide better modeling:-

http://www.mir.com.m...macro/index.htm

The ringlights are now often being replaced by the new Macrolite set ups where small flash guns can be moved anywhere around the attachment ring that is screwed into the filter thread on the front of the lens so if set each side on equal power produce the same flat ringlight type lighting, or just like the switchable segment ringlights, if the power ratio of one is varied to the other they provide better modeling:-

http://www.luminous-...ries/r1c1.shtml

Canon also produces a similar Macrolight to Nikon.

Hope that sorts out the confusion in equipment types?

DaveW

Edited November 22, 2012 by DaveW

[JohnP]

I'm still chewing this over, the Sigma EM140 is within my price range. I'm not sure that I can justify spending any more, my skills are limited and I probably wouldn't be able to get the best out of something much more expensive.

[jeremy rundle]

I would not waste my money.

I use these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YONGNUO-MR-58-LED-Macro-Close-Up-Ring-Light-Flash-For-Canon-Nikon-/160900756564?pt=UK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL&hash=item25766eb454

LOOK HERE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VYYLlncWn8

They are all similar and many types on Ebay

[Guest DaveW]

As Fuji said about conventional ring lights, the lighting from the LED unit is very flat with little modeling. As far as I can see from the details Jeremy, though you can switch each half independently (both on, or one off), unlike the ring flash John was looking at you cannot have both halves on but with different power settings on each half in order to give better modeling? This is what you would be paying for in the more expensive unit John linked to. Whilst switching one half off obviously gives some modeling you are stuck with that single ratio which may provide dense shadows unless you can use a reflector card on the other side to fill in slightly.

None the less it looks an interesting device even if it really mainly only duplicates the original ring light type lighting Fuji complained of. They are many similar ones as you say (probably all come from the same factory with different names stamped on them?). However I am not too impressed with the results in the link below, but that may be as much bad macro technique as the ring light itself:-

http://www.d70users.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42597

This is more how I would expect a Peacock feather to appear with better modeling from having one half of the ring on lower power than the other:-

http://loveandcranberries.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/bird-call.html

For Fuji:-

Have you ever tried fixing a layer or two of kitchen towel or tissues over one half of your ring flash to reduce the light that side? That is what some used to do with the first ring lights to get better modeling, imitating in effect the later ringlights with variable power sections? I know you like "lash-up devices" you can modify yourself.

DaveW

[JohnP]

I've taken the plunge and ordered a Sigma EM 140 DG Ringflash... I hope I'll be happy with it.

[Guest DaveW]

Should be John. There is an article on flash here and here's a quote from it:-

"Newer model ring and bracket flashes allow light modeling, which is simply a separate exposure control for the flash tubes on either side of the lens. Varying the power between the two flashes creates a directional primary light coupled with a weaker fill light from the other side."

http://www.macro-pho...hotography.html

Yours is a dedicated unit using the TTL flash automation of your camera, but text on this manual unit explains about setting the different lighting ratio's each side:-

http://photo.stackex...nual-ring-flash

I presume the lighting ratio control on your ring flash will work something like the above. As they say it's a case of picking a static subject and trying all the ratio's to see how much modeling to show texture you prefer, though obviously this may vary with different subjects. Some you may prefer flat ring lighting for, whilst others you may prefer to introduce more shadow by reducing the ratio on one side to show more texture. TTL flash metering will usually only affect the over all exposure not the lighting ratio side to side which is probably set on the ring flash itself. However consult the manuals on this since many modern cameras can control flash guns to a certain extent.

DaveW

Edited November 23, 2012 by DaveW

[JohnP]

Thanks for all your help Dave... much appreciated.