Upgrading

[Fogey]

Seriously looking at going full frame.  Have seen a number of used Nikon D610 that look interesting.  Might have to get an 18-300mm zoom lens to go with it.  My Tamron 90mm macro and 150-600mm zoom should fit the body OK, so I will have all that I need for the time being.
I have chosen the D610 as it is the lightest full frame in the Nikon range, I believe.

[chorleyjeff]

I have thought about moving from M4/3 to FF. The only affordable way would be a used Nikon D600/610 or Canon 6D with a 24-105 or 24-120 lens. But after reading reports about sensor quality ( DR same as my Oly EM5), lack of flipping screen, software etc I came to the conclusion that what would really be advantageous would be much more recent technology in camera. That, unfortunately, would be  far too expensive for me to justify given that I , an amateur, rarely print larger than A3, don't do indoor or after dusk photos. Also the weight of FF lenses would feel heavy 3 hurst's into hiking in the hills. So when photo workshops, tours etc resume I will continue to be patronised or ignored by the FF brigade.

On the other hand do what a friend of mine has done - buy Sony A7 mk2 (But now planning mk 3 for battery life ) a few moths ago plus 24-105 and 70-200 lenses for posting on Flickr or camera club comps at 1600 x 1200  and no prints ever.

[Fogey]

The Nikon D600 is a no no due to the problems they had with oil flicking onto the sensor.  Nikon's answer to that was the D610, which incorporated the same shutter release mechanism of the D750, I believe.  It is still reckoned to be the lightest FF in the Nikon range.
I have been looking at all the whistles and bells that are available and I have to say I am impressed.  Now all I need is to find a used camera with a low shutter count.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Fogey

[Ryewolf]

The Canon 6D Mark II does have a variable screen and a 45 point AF compared to the 11 point AF of the original 6D. Cheapest I've seen for the 6D Mark II used on ebay was £993 used and £1200ish new (body only). A few years back when I was looking to upgrade my Canon 100D I did look at the 6D, I ended up buying the 800D as it was newer, a similar price and better spec'd. Last year I bought the 90D which I compared to the 6D Mark II, again the 90D was was newer and better spec'd. If I was going to go FF, I'd probably wait until I could afford the 5D Mark IV or the newer 5DS

[Fogey]

Well, I've ordered my new second hand camera.  Lol
Should be getting it by the end of February.

[Ryewolf]

What did you order?

[Fogey]

A Nikon D610.  Now I'm looking at a Nikon 18-300mm lens to try to save some money

[Ryewolf]

An 18-300mm lens seems like a good choice, I bought a Canon 28-300mm L Series lens for the exact same reason

[Fogey]

I couldn't get a 18-300mm in FX format anywhere.  A plethora of DX lenses, so I have had to settle for a 20-300mm FX lens from Japan.

Should have it within the week.

Can't wait to start experimenting.

[Black Pearl]

Out of curiosity what are you hoping to achieve by changing the size of your sensor?

 

[Fogey]

Much, much less noise at high ISO.  Also with a full frame it's possible to keep the camera in aperture priority and increase the shutter speed by raising the ISO to the point where 1/4000th sec can be achieved with hardly any noise at all.

I got that little gem from a professional wildlife photographer.

[Black Pearl]

8 minutes ago, Fogey said:

Much, much less noise at high ISO.  Also with a full frame it's possible to keep the camera in aperture priority and increase the shutter speed by raising the ISO to the point where 1/4000th sec can be achieved with hardly any noise at all.

I got that little gem from a professional wildlife photographer.

Which camera are you using now - because the D610 sensor has a poorer performance than many current APSC sensors?

 

[Fogey]

I'm currently using a Nikon D5300, which has the same pixel count as the D610.  I've looked long and hard at the relative performance issues and the crop factor sensors all fall off in performance in low light.

All the budget cameras, as I understand it, use the Cmos (Complementary Metal oxide Semiconductor), processor which has a limit with turning the photons of light into electrons on a smaller sensor area - hence the noise, than it does on a larger sensor area.  This is common with all crop sensor cameras.

The I-phones use an upgraded cmos sensor, I believe, giving an outstanding performance, as do the Nikon and Canon top of the range DSLRs - but as I don't have thousands of £££'s to throw away, I guess I'll stick with my lowly choice.

Look at the Lecia site on the matter - it makes very interesting reading.

[Black Pearl]

3 minutes ago, Fogey said:

I'm currently using a Nikon D5300, which has the same pixel count as the D610.  I've looked long and hard at the relative performance issues and the crop factor sensors all fall off in performance in low light.

All the budget cameras, as I understand it, use the Cmos (Complementary Metal oxide Semiconductor), processor which has a limit with turning the photons of light into electrons on a smaller sensor area - hence the noise, than it does on a larger sensor area.  This is common with all crop sensor cameras.

The I-phones use an upgraded cmos sensor, I believe, giving an outstanding performance, as do the Nikon and Canon top of the range DSLRs - but as I don't have thousands of £££'s to throw away, I guess I'll stick with my lowly choice.

Look at the Lecia site on the matter - it makes very interesting reading.

You will get a tiny, and it is a tiny gain in noise levels at very high ISO's switching from a D5300 to a D610 - BUT - you will loose your 1.5x crop factor so your 600mm lens stops acting like a 900mm which mean you are going to have to get closer (we all know this isn't usually possible) or crop during post production which will lead to a net loss in image quality. I appreciate you have already made a purchase but if you can out it on hold it might be worth doing so. The AF points on your D5300 cover a larger are of the screen which can give a significant boost to your keeper rate - your current camera has a larger, higher quality and fully articulated screen which the D610 lacks, might not seem like a major thing but trust me, once you are used to one, they're hard to live without. I don't know your exact overall budget but a D7500 or better still D500 would give you a far great gain in overall performance. They are faster, have better AF systems, more modern processors, articulated screens etc. The D500 if its within budget is basically a baby D5 and is frankly astonishing for the money.  

All current mainstream camera use CMOS sensors, they have done for donkeys years. Processors are a separate thing altogether and they gain significantly in performance with each generation. 

[Black Pearl]

This is a useful resource if you want to directly compare sensor output - note the D610 doesn't really pull ahead even at 6400iso and if you compare it to other brands (I included a Fujifilm 26mp APSC body) it is well and truly beaten even though it's sensor is larger

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=nikon_d610&attr13_1=fujifilm_xt3&attr13_2=nikon_d7200&attr13_3=nikon_d5300&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=6400&attr16_1=6400&attr16_2=6400&attr16_3=6400&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.5763247189672414&y=-0.18858878066013512